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 What A Croc Of Crap

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Gary
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PostSubject: What A Croc Of Crap   Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:27 am

http://www.latitude38.com/letters/200511.htm

From this site I quote:


A CLIPPER 32 FOR THE SEA OF CORTEZ?

A friend and I just graduated college, and are planning to sail the Sea of Cortez from January 1 until May 1. We are currently in the process of buying our boat for the trip. We recently found a Clipper Marine 32 sloop for sale in San Carlos, and on first inspection she seemed like the perfect boat for us.

But after reading some of your responses to letters about this design, it seems that you have a somewhat negative perception of her seaworthiness. Our plan is to do strictly coastal cruising around San Carlos, and hopefully make a crossing to sail in Bahia Conception for several weeks before coming back across to San Carlos. We would have the boat surveyed before we bought her, but would still like your opinion on whether she would be suitable for our desired purpose.

Jesse Diller
Fort Collins, Colorado

Jesse - We would have preferred it if you'd written in and said, "We have X bucks to spend on a boat for a five-month cruise this winter in the Sea of Cortez. Any suggestions?" And, it would have helped if you explained how much you know about boats and sailing in open water.

Although we often used to see a guy sail a dark blue Clipper Marine 32 on windy days on San Francisco Bay, it's also true that: 1) We believe Clipper 32s are among the least robust over 30-ft sailboats ever built, and 2) we would not like to be caught aboard one during a Norther in the Sea of Cortez. This is not to say that you might not have a safe and wonderful time with such a boat, especially if you're good sailors, the boat is in great shape, and you're very careful not to get caught in rough weather. The sailing experience is the most important thing.

You didn't ask, but if we bought a boat in San Carlos on January 1, the first thing we'd do is sail our butts down to Banderas Bay, where the air and water are warm - and where there are a lot more attractive and eligible young women for a couple of young guys like you. After all, you don't want to spend half your cruise not being able to swim because the water is too cold. And by March, you could sail back up to the Sea of Cortez and still have plenty of time to enjoy that beautiful area during its best time of year.

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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:46 am

The quote above really pisses me off. Who is this jerk to come off with such a statement?

Look pal, Clipper Marine 32's were built "hell for stout" is one famous quote. While I think that is one extreme, your quote is far more foolish in the other direction. The guy in the dark blue CM32 on CF bay knows far better what these hell for stout sailboats are made of.

The charter of CM sailboats was to make trailerable sailboats. Yes, an easy to trailer 32 foot sailboat. Just what other trailerable sailboat are you comparing our CM32's to?

I really get my ass in a knot reading stuff posted over the years by people that learned to type with two fingers in college while they got c- grades fucking the Deans daughter when they should have been getting an education.

Got a ten spot that says this butt wipe has never been near a CM32' except for seeing one a mile away in CF bay.

Look pal, if you knew anything about what you are taking about, you could say many boats are stronger in the 30' class, but none of them stronger pound for pound than the CM32. These boats are going on 40 years old, and I dare say, more of them are still on the water serving the needs of their owners, than the heavy non trailerable sailboats of this size.

I own two CM32's and yes, they are built hell for stout, and anyone that has sailed on one knows no finer sailboat has ever been made, then, or today, to accomplish the mission of trailer to water, and back safely again.

These sailboats were designed by the world famous William Crealock, who is on record as saying he was very proud of these boats. Crealock knew boats, and he very well knew blue water first hand. For you to say what you did, and take his memory, and take his work out of context, is shameful, and poor judgment on your part.

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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:00 pm

Found this, and here the web site goes into a better explanation of CM's, but still off the mark, I believe:

CLIPPER MARINE

Do you have any information or anecdotal references on Clipper Marine boats designed by William Crealock? I've started my personal website about my sailing activities and about my second boat, a Clipper Marine 21. My first boat was a model of PT-109. Anyway, my website is http://home.sc.rr.com/joecox.

If anyone could remember any articles - positive or negative - about the boats, company or designer, I'd be most appreciative. By the way, in today's Internet of eye candy and other crap, Latitude's site is simple, direct and informative. Please don't learn more about web design and spoil what you've already done.

Joe Cox
Columbia, South Carolina

Joe - Thanks for the kind words. Criticizing a man's boat is right up there with criticizing his lady. Nonetheless, we'd be negligent if we didn't have to tell you that we don't believe Clipper Marine boats were designed, built or rigged for anything but sailing in protected waters. Yes, one fellow singlehanded a Clipper Marine 32 from San Diego to the Marquesas, but it's not something we'd recommend. In addition, there is a guy who frequently sails a blue on blue Clipper Marine 26 or 30 on the Bay. It certainly wouldn't be the boat we'd want to be sailing in The Slot on an ebb in the middle of summer, but this guy seems to trim and reef his sails well, so maybe he knows something we don't.

There's an active Clipper Marine owner's website at www.angelfire.com/ca/ldrust/cmoa.html, with an interesting history of the company. [Webmistress's note: When we posted this page, this link was active, but it is no longer. If anyone knows of a current site for Clipper Marine owners, please email us.] What gets us to worrying, however, is when one contributor says not to worry too much about the flexing flat expanses because a Moore 24 has them, too. That's as misleading as comparing a Yugo to a Mercedes because they both have four tires. The web history cautions that boats built after '75 were inferior to the earlier ones. If we remember correctly, one of the smaller Clippers sank off Southern California after the hull and deck separated.

A Clipper Marine on a small lake or within the confines of places such as San Diego Bay, Newport Harbor or the Oakland Estuary seems like a reasonable proposition to us. However, we wouldn't suggest anyone consider anything more arduous without the particular boat having been checked out by a competent surveyor.


http://www.latitude38.com/letters/200011.htm

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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:14 pm

When William Crealock designed these sailboats, where is the literature that says, please drop this sailboat into the nearest category 5 hurricane? These sailboats, yes, even the ship like 32's, were built as trailer anywhere sailboats, to be pulled by the family car, station wagon, or pickup.

Hook on to a 27 foot Hunter or Catalina, and go across a toll bridge marked 8' wide limit. Or tunnels, or highways in some areas, you need a special one use permit to haul it around.

Apples to apples, all you two finger keyboard nut jobs, that do not understand what it is they are interneting about.

I would not sail my sailboat to Hawaii, or across the Atlantic to Europe, but that does not mean it would not make the crossing. Pick the right tool for the job. Pure and simple. The correct answer for many people, is CM is the correct tool for the job that are doing.

I love mine, and would never want anything else.

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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:36 am

I think the biggest issue is that these so called yachties just can't admit/believe that our boats ARE capable of doing what they do. They spend a shit ton on their dock queens that at most see perfect conditions a couple times a year. They usually have boats capable of sailing around the world. But don't leave the protection of a bay. Oh it's cool to talk about their Hans Christian while bashing boats like our CMs while sitting at the club.

Yesterday we ran into a friend who has lived and sailed on his small boat for 30 years. He heard we just got back from fetching our boat and of coarse his first question was what is she. To my surprise he had heard of Clippers. He assumed she was the aft cabin as that is the only 32 he knew about. I told him they had produced sloops as well.

He then told me of a family of 4 who sailed and lived aboard a CM30 for five years. They went up and down the East coast w/ the seasons. The only reason they changed boats was to accommodate their growing kids.

I just can't wait till we have been in the water for five years and an regail the armchair sailors and yachties w/ our tails of going places they would never dream of taking a boat like a Clipper and likely have never taken their "blue water" boats.

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1972 South Coast Seacraft 26 S/V "Seaweed" on the hook in Key Largo pirat
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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Another place that ticked me off was here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/clipper-marine-8403.html



I later joined so I could post and set the record straight. Now I post now and again.



People really are dumb sometimes.



One guy said "Clipper Marine was Crealock's early work"



So, the light bulb was Edison's early work, but that gave us light for over 100 years.

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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:56 pm

Going to put my two cents in here. I bought my CM26 not knowing the first thing about the company or Bill Crealock. I did however find the aesthetics of the craft quite pleasing and went all around the boat with a rubber mallet looking for any soft/dead spots in the hull. Having determined the boat was solid a rock I laid out $1200 for my first sailboat. Having now sailed her in Puget Sound, in up to 20 knot winds, I never once felt out of control or in any danger on her. Yes she is a little light, therefore maybe a little on the rough side in the chop, but she was always stable and in control. I'm not planning to sail her to Hawaii, but I think she can handle any situation I will be comfortable placing her in. As I gain more experience with the boat I will pass along my experiences and any weaknesses I find. For now I am very happy with my "economy yacht". Yachtys be damned.
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PostSubject: Re: What A Croc Of Crap   Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:01 am

My motorcycle was built by a very good race car builder in Canada. When his business started to fail, I believe, can be traced back to the Internet and his not realizing the power of the keyboard. Before the Internet, he only sucked up to people that took care of equipment. Snot nosed children of rich people, he would watch them abuse his equipment, and not do warranty work. He figured if they wanted to rip stuff up and not take care of it, let em. Then the Internet came along, and forums started up. He was soon branded as a bad builder by these morons that tore up his stuff. It drove him out of business. He has world records for speed in top fuel dragsters. Have no idea what he is doing now. Brilliant builder.

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