~~ClipperMarine.org ~~ FORUM ~~ GALLERY ~~ Clipper-Sailor.net~~
Please join our forum. Ads go away for members!

Sign up today, it is free!

~~ClipperMarine.org ~~ FORUM ~~ GALLERY ~~ Clipper-Sailor.net~~

The Worlds Finest Trailerable Vintage Cruising Sailboats Designed By Renowned W.I.B. Crealock N.A.
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  Google Map Of CM's  clipper-sailor.net  Main Page  
Latest topics
» Cruising
by Triticum Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:10 pm

» CM32 trailer setup
by martinc2 Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:02 pm

» Rudder replacement
by Triticum Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:53 pm

» Keel meets the hull - damage. Repairable or new boat?
by Triticum Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:15 pm

» Looking for Traveler Track for my '71 CM21
by Tim Mueller Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:02 pm

» Need Rigging for CM30, any thoughts on where to find it?
by JeffLee Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:04 pm

» Added Clipper Marine To Groups On Facebook
by tundrabunny Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:28 pm

» New guy lurking about for pics
by JeffLee Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:28 am

» Parting out Clipper Marine 21/ Free project boat in Michigan
by Rick26h Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:04 am

» Mast repair
by Rick26h Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:49 am

» Nice CM-30 for Sale in New York
by Gary Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:48 am

» CM26 Specs
by Rick26h Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:35 am

» New Member - Rockport Tx
by FreeReign Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:21 pm

» Discovery! Clipper Marine 9.3
by zdm40 Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:18 pm

» Keel bolt replacement,
by martinc2 Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:14 pm

» CM21 swing keel lifting system hardware
by JeffLee Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:20 am

» New member from Northern California
by JeffLee Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:25 pm

» CM 21 Upgrades
by JeffLee Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:30 am

» New boat! CM32 aft cockpit sloop
by Gary Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:59 pm

» CM21 project boat almost giveaway
by kimgwinn Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:00 pm

Keywords

Share | 
 

 Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Gary
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1310
Sailboat : Pair CM 32's Aft Cabin Ketch & Aft Cockpit
Male Birthday : 1956-10-17
Join date : 2011-12-28
Age : 60
Job/hobbies : Artist

PostSubject: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:55 pm


~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
Gary

Back to top Go down
http://clippermarine.forumotion.com
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:03 pm

I believe all swing keel models had weighted centerboards for ballast. Otherwise where would they get their ballast? I do not recall CM ever making a water ballast.
Back to top Go down
Gary
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1310
Sailboat : Pair CM 32's Aft Cabin Ketch & Aft Cockpit
Male Birthday : 1956-10-17
Join date : 2011-12-28
Age : 60
Job/hobbies : Artist

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:00 am

I think several had ballast built in the hull only, and the keel had the same weight as a rudder. I have not confirmed this, but it seems apparent from reading I have done.

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
Gary

Back to top Go down
http://clippermarine.forumotion.com
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:24 pm

I am curious what lead you to that conclusion.

Putting ballast in the hull would require one of two options:
1, a stubby keel that are typically thick and wide but shallow. They will typically house an unweighted centerboard.
2, a water ballast system.

To my knowledge, Macs were the only water ballast boats out there. Most designers look poorly on this option because the weight is too close to the center of gravity requiring more ballast than should be necessary thus slowing the boat down with all the additional weight.

I have a hard time believing Bill C. would have chosen this option. He designed better boats than that.

The other option would have increased the cost of production exponentially. The process of adding ballast or a stubby keel with centerboard over just giving them a weighted keel doesn't make sense for ease of trailering OR cost effectiveness.

We all know that the mission of Clipper Marine was to build low cost trailerable boats.

If you are basing your conclusion on a written description listing a centerboard as an option, remember that a swing keel like most of us have are, by definition, a centerboard. Even if it has ballast it is still technically a centerboard.
Back to top Go down
Gary
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1310
Sailboat : Pair CM 32's Aft Cabin Ketch & Aft Cockpit
Male Birthday : 1956-10-17
Join date : 2011-12-28
Age : 60
Job/hobbies : Artist

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:55 pm

No water. I never mentioned water. Not water ballast.

In several places on the internet, and I think a post or two here, people refer to fiberglass keels on their CM's.

It is possible all swing keels on all CM sailboats were ballast keels, that is what I am trying to find out.

It is possible, people have lost their ballast keels, sold their sailboats without a keel, and people tried making a replacement out of fiberglass.

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
Gary

Back to top Go down
http://clippermarine.forumotion.com
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:07 pm

Interesting stuff. Lots of mysteries surrounding these old boats.
Back to top Go down
Everett CM32
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 447
Sailboat : CM32 Aft Cockpit
Male Join date : 2011-12-28
Job/hobbies : Nuclear Nomad

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:47 pm

Diggs wrote:
To my knowledge, Macs were the only water ballast boats out there.

Santana had some. http://www.wdschock.com/boats/santana2023/s2023_specs.htm

Used to sail on one owned by a friend. When we pulled it every vinter we always got a laugh as people would see the water draining and he would say "Damn, I knew she had a leak somewhere".

April and I on Gary's Santana, "Sushi Bucket":

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
1977 CM32 Sloop "J.F. Gone" Currently in re-fit, splashing 2013
1972 South Coast Seacraft 26 S/V "Seaweed" on the hook in Key Largo pirat
Back to top Go down
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Friends don't let friends sail water ballasted sailboats. Very Happy

The only exception is on the big maxis that flood the windward side of a hull in addition to their canting bulb keels to allow them to stay upright while sailing at speeds of 20+ knots.
Back to top Go down
Gary
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1310
Sailboat : Pair CM 32's Aft Cabin Ketch & Aft Cockpit
Male Birthday : 1956-10-17
Join date : 2011-12-28
Age : 60
Job/hobbies : Artist

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:01 pm

Had a Mac 25, Last true Mac Sailboat before they went and retooled everything.

I was inches from putting 11 grand in a Mac X power sailboat, but got cold feet reading about what sailing should be. That is when I found CM's. Thank goodness I did.

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
Gary

Back to top Go down
http://clippermarine.forumotion.com
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:17 pm

Like this fella right here.

From what I understand, they filled the ballast on the leeward side of the boat to make her heel over so far at that slow of a speed.

Pretty crazy stuff!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2PQfJ2SAg4
Back to top Go down
Diggs
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 149
Sailboat : CM 26
Male Join date : 2012-08-09

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:20 pm

Amazing what folks will do for a good photo opportunity.

Keel surfing dressed in a Hugo Boss suit.
Back to top Go down
Gary
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1310
Sailboat : Pair CM 32's Aft Cabin Ketch & Aft Cockpit
Male Birthday : 1956-10-17
Join date : 2011-12-28
Age : 60
Job/hobbies : Artist

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:46 am

Ill add that to the videos section. Lol

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
Gary

Back to top Go down
http://clippermarine.forumotion.com
Everett CM32
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
avatar

Posts : 447
Sailboat : CM32 Aft Cockpit
Male Join date : 2011-12-28
Job/hobbies : Nuclear Nomad

PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:01 pm

Diggs wrote:
Friends don't let friends sail water ballasted sailboats. Very Happy

Laughing Laughing

I will say that Gary has taken Sushi Bucket all over Lake Mich, Georgia Bay, Apostle Islands etc. Including the Straits of Mackinac in a shit storm one night that had him taking green water over the rail. Always last boat off the lake for the vinter in Milwaukee when I was up there. Never afraid to take her out in 20 knots. Well there was one day we were out in 6-8 foot waves, very confused, I was at the tiller and he thought I wasn't handling it well. He took over for a few minutes and decided we should head for the protection of the break wall.

Guy I'm working w/ now built a catamaran and two weeks later Andrew came through and he pumped two ton of water into the hulls to keep it from flying away. Boat is going in for a re-fit now after 24 years. Will post pics of his custom boat when I get wifi.

Have to watch that video when I get wifi too.

~~~~~ClipperMarine.Org~~~~~Clipper-Sailor.net~~~~~
1977 CM32 Sloop "J.F. Gone" Currently in re-fit, splashing 2013
1972 South Coast Seacraft 26 S/V "Seaweed" on the hook in Key Largo pirat
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?   

Back to top Go down
 
Which CM's Had No Ballast Swing Keels, & Which Ones Had Ballast Swing Keels?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» The Guilt of the McCanns by Manual Catarino
» Mark Knopfler

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
~~ClipperMarine.org ~~ FORUM ~~ GALLERY ~~ Clipper-Sailor.net~~ :: Welcome To Clipper Marine Org & Clipper-Sailor Net :: >>General Discussions :: >>General Discussions-
Jump to: