Thinking about buying

Hello,

I have been looking to buy a trailer-able sailboat for a while now, and I have just come across a " 1973 26'clipper classic".

It looks like the pictures I see here so I am assuming it is a CM 26.


I guess my questions are going to be pretty broad, as I dont know yet what to ask.

What should I look for when I am checking the boat out?

I haven't heard much about this type/manufacturer of boat, is there anything I should know?

There are no cushions and some water damage to the cabinet inside, but other than that he says it is in good shape. It has a motor(which ran last year), trailer and all the sails and rigging are there and in good shape.


Any advice?


Thanks in advance!

Welcome!

We all have a lot to say about this...I'll start it.

If its a CM26, is it a doghouse (permanant raised cockpit) or a flushdeck (the top line of the boat from front to back is shaped like an wedge and it has a pop up pop top?

Consider the motor, the hull, the keel, the rudder, the rigging (the shrouds and stays that hold up the mast), the deck surface stability (spongy when you step on it or all solid underfoot?), the running rigging (the ropes/halyards), trailer condition...brakes, tires, lights, what accessories.
Summary:
Hull
Keel
Rudder
Running motor (size of motor...I believe the 26' CM is rated for at least a 6hp)
Running rigging
Standing rigging
Mast condition
Sail condition
Number and type of sails
Interior condition, ice box, cushions, bilge pump, battery, wiring...

Tag...Penny, Gary, Ev, Jake, others...you're it...

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Welcome!

Glad you signed up as our newest member!

As I have not owned that model, I will let someone that has, hit the highlights with you.

At the bottom of every page of our forum is a copy of the Clipper Marine owners manual.

Welcome again.

Its the doghouse version. It has a raised cabin with a pop up section. it does not look like the one in the above picture.

Although I didnt know to call it that....

Anyhow heres an attempt at some pictures:

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on the owners manual.

Snagged it.


Picture of the sails.

Great looking Yacht!

Thanks so much for joining our group.

Mark just sold his, and he is a good source if and when you get a 26 question.

Welcome to the club, as it were.

You titled the thread "Thinking about buying" so I must assume you haven't quite decided. You also asked what you should know. This may sound like I'm trying to scare you off, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I love Clipper Marine sailboats, in fact this weekend I'm picking up a new(er) boat. I think they are well designed (except for a few minor flaws) and sleek looking boats (although someone referred to a CM32 Sloop as a house with a mast).

Anyway, what you should know is that Clipper Marine owners are frequently shunned and looked down upon by many yacht or sailing clubs around. They don't consider the Clipper Marine to be a real sailboat because it doesn't cost 3 to 4 times what they do, or for some other silly reason. Or maybe it's because the company went out of business so long ago. Answer me this, if they were poorly designed, how come there are so many of them still around? So, if your looking for a sailboat to fit into a larger social gathering a Clipper Marine may not be quite right. However, if you're looking for a solid sailboat with which you can enjoy years of enjoyment for you and your family, and at a very reasonable price, you couldn't ask for a finer sailboat.

Now then, lets take a look at the boat you're thinking about. You indicated that there was some water staining on some of the cabinets. Take a good look at those cabinets, give a little pushing and pulling on the plywood. If the plywood feels solid then some sanding and refinishing may be all that is required. However, if the plywood feels a little soft, spongy, or gives when you push on it, you could be looking at some extensive remodeling (take a look at the Munchkin restoration pictures by following the link below my signature line). Fiberglass work can be a lot of fun, it can also get under ones skin.

The next thing you want to look at is the forward end of the keel trunk, from under the boat. Crawl under with a small ball-peen hammer or an ice pick. Using the hammer, gently tap on the sides of the keel trunk, where it transitions from the vertical of the trunk to the horizontal of the bottom, and listen to the sound; the sides will almost always sound solid. Then tap on the forward end of the keel trunk, listening for the same solid sound. The reason for this little procedure is to determine if the keel has slammed into the forward trunk wall. This is a somewhat common problem that most sellers won't tell you about. The problem is that, when raising or lowering the keel, sometimes the cable will break or in some way come apart, allowing the keel to swing down uncontrolled and you have a little physics come into play; to pieces of matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Consequently you would be hearing the dreaded keel crunch. The ice pick you ask? Instead of tapping with the hammer you can poke at the front of the keel trunk with the ice pick looking for soft spots or a patch that wasn't done properly will sometimes flake off. This isn't a fatal flaw, but will require some good repair work (where's Blaine when you need him?).

Assuming the front of the keel trunk is sound, I would next recommend that you look at is the keel cable, where it attaches to the keel. Again crawling under the boat with a good flashlight and looking between the keel and the keel trunk (not going to be much space there), about 3/4 to 4/5 of the way back. If you see something that looks like a ball of red yarn, that's a bad sign. If you see just a little loop of wire rope going though the keel, or the wire rope attached to a large D shackle, and then disappearing up into a small shaft at the top of the keel trunk, that's a very good sign. The ball of red yarn means she's had some very poor maintenance and the wire rope is balled up and rusted, this will need some immediate attention because the keel will most likely not go up or down. A good clean connection tells you that someone has taken good care of their boat.

If possible I'd also take a look at the winch for the keel cable, clean and operating properly or rusted and hard to move and in need of replacement, that is the question being answered here.

Cushions, you can do just about anything you like for those, foam rubber and vinyl or go with upholstery fabric. If you want some dimensions I can measure the Munchkins cushions and post them for you.

I told you this might sound like I'm trying to scare you off, as I said that isn't the case. What I'm trying to do is turn you into a scary monster that most sellers fear - an INFORMED BUYER. Armed with knowledge and after a closer inspection, you will know if the seller is asking a fair price or if you should talk him down. Sometimes a boat can be had for the price of the trailer and the boat is free (as was the case with the Munchkin), but a free boat usually means more sweat equity will go into it.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out. If you end up doing some remodeling there are several resources as far as supplies go that will save you a good deal of money.

Happy sailing.

Thanks a lot Penny, that's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for. I haven't decided for sure, but I am hopeful that this is the one.

I'm not worried about the popularity of the boat, I've been looking for a while and I've seen the scorn many people have for the macgregors and this seems to be in the same, erm, boat. I'm buying the boat for me, not them. If she sails steady and is nice to a new hand, we'll get along just fine. Like you said, if so many are in the water how bad can they be?

The cushion dimensions would be very helpful, if its not too much trouble, thank you. I plan on making some.

I'll make sure to look close for the keel dropping issue as well as the cable. I have to assume its happened on this boat as old as it is.

He is asking $800. I've seen the trailers alone go for that much. My concern is more why so cheap, than why so much. He said he bought it to teach his kids to sail, but they would rather powerboat, so the sailboat just sits, and he finally decided to part with it.

I also have an interior picture. The cabinets don't seem to bad there, but we'll have to see. The bottom of the door in the bulkhead makes me nervous, and it looks like the window seal is falling out.

The Clippers may not have the prestige of more expensive sailboats but they are not looked down upon in the same regard as MacGregors. Most of the bad reputation Macs have is for their newer water ballast models. I don't hear a lot of talk about the older swing keel Macs.

With that being said...sometimes all you need to shut the nay sayers down is to mention that the Clipper is an early Bill Crealock design. It raises a lot of eyebrows and, in my experience, shuts them up pretty quick. Who hasn't ogled a Crealock 37 or Pacific Seacraft?

The reason these boats sell for so little is for several reasons. The company is out of business so there is little support for them. Sites like this one are the product of that situation and probably offer better support than you will get from any factory though. They are not as well know or popular so the fetch a lower price. As with any product that sell for less, the only way to sell for a good price is to have it in mint condition. Therefore, if you can find a Clipper that needs a small to moderate amount of work, you can typically get them for very little money.

For $800, if you have a solid hull, I would say snag it. I love my Clipper and will probably keep for most of my life. Even after I buy a bigger boat (someday) it will be nice to have a trailerable boat I can take anywhere.

Besides, as a Clipper owner, you will find yourself joining a tight knit community of Clipper owners as we continue to solve the mysteries of our fun little boats.

When I purchased my Mac 25, the marina owner said my Mac was the last of MacGregor's true sailboats. He did not like the water ballast, and he did not like the ski boat outboard.

What I like about the CM 26 that I did not like about the Mac 25, is the Mac did not have a dedicated place for the kicker. It was almost like the dealers discovered the factory forgot all about a kicker, and they quickly put on a aftermarket kicker plate. The CM 26 is much better thought sailboat from what I have seen.

Well, I went and checked it out.

I did not buy.

The interior was shot. As in I could tear off chunks of plywood with my hands and wring water out of them shot. He had left the roof open and there was 2 inches of water in the bottom. The keel winch was a ball of rust and when I tried to get it to turn it almost ripped out of the mounts so I couldn't even tell if it was going to be usable. The hull seemed fine actually and I still was considering buying it, figuring that I could gut it and refit it. (I saw Penny's webiste. Looks like a lot of work, but not hard to do)

Until I looked at the trailer.

It was in his back yard, and I had no idea how i was supposed to get it out. Since he put it there he had done some landscaping and blocked off the only way out with some broken down cars. He would have to get them removed to have any hope of getting out of his yard. The tires were shot and dry rotted, and all the lights were hanging from the wires. There was no way I could hope to tow it home that day, and when I asked about it he seemed shocked that I planned to take it home that day. The idea that the lights needed to function seemed odd to him, but he said he would try and get them working before I came back.

If he actually had made it ready to sell, and moved it to his driveway instead of where it sat, I might have bought it.

As it was I had an hour drive to get it home and with those tires I dont think it would have made it.

Sigh. Still on the hunt.

Thanks for all the help, I might just be back with more questions on another boat.

Penny has a 26 she may be ready to sell. Send her a PM

At this time, the Munchkin is not for sale. My son wants to use her and I have some remodeling to complete. I don't want to leave her half-done.

I'm glad our collective advice, as to what to look for, was helpful. If you're interested, I do know where a CM30 is located, although I think it's probably farther than you'd want to go. Have you tried doing a search at the all of craigslist website?

A 30 is probably to big for me at this point. The 26 is really pushing it for what I think I could feel comfortable towing and sailing, but at that price I had to look.

I will continue to search and yes, I will be looking at craigslist.

I had not heard of this model of boat before, but i like what I see and will include it in my search terms from now on.

Thanks again for all the help.

Try this site. It will search all of the Craigslists across the country. The search can be narrowed down to the region.

http://www.allofcraigs.com/

Happy hunting

Sweet! I always used Search Tempest, and it is kinda lame.