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 More winch problems... CM21

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retired1
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PostSubject: More winch problems... CM21   Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:14 pm

I got the keel cable re done and the keel painted. I cranked it up and wow it would not hardly move. Got boat back on trailer and crawled aboard. I took off the winch. Its a Fulton 560. Is that what they used? It seems to work fine, but the cable coming through the top of the trunk went through two pulleys. One is inside the trunk and the shaft on it is bent bad. The other was tied onto the trunk with a bit of rope???? I think the winch was hooked up backwards. The cable came onto the drum from the crank end and of course was dragging on the shaft that carries the crank and gears.

Now the question: Does it matter which way the winch is mounted? Does the pulley in the trunk have to be there? The 26 just uses a bolt with a bushing on it I think? The way this was mounted it was also eating a hole in the top of the trunk support under the hatchway.

Any suggestions. Please.

Russ
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:45 pm

Not sure about the winch but the pulley should not be removed.

My PO removed it on my boat and without it, the cable has nothing to keep it away from the tube that feeds it through the hull and it slowly sawed its way through making for a nasty repair.
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:04 am

I would say yes it matters with respect to the way the cable spools around the wench.

If you mount the wench and spool the cable clock wise then the cable would enter the keel trunk at a straight vector however if you spool the cable counter clockwise then the entrance point might be an acute angle thus wearing on the brass fitting on top of the keel trunk.

I know because I spooled my wire backwards and had to do it over.

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retired1
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:45 pm

I think this whole thing was re done and backwards at that. The winch was mounted so the crank would come out through the inspection port in the cockpit. That was good, but the cable had to run across the shaft that the gears and crank are on before it gets to the drum. Bad. Tension for one and wear for another. That shaft was no designed to have 500lbs. resting on it. The pulley is 3" in diameter and the bolt holding it was bent into a "U".

I think I am going to move the winch to the top of the trunk just in front of the hatch opening with the crank on the port side. I will then feed the cable straight into it after exiting the trunk and over the pulley. I think that will reduce stress and make it easier to crank.

Floody, I'm working on more pictures.

I'm finding lots of dry rot. I think I am going to gut her and redo everything.

Does anyone know if any of the wood inside is structural or is it all for comfort and storage. I would like to sail her once the keel is done, but if I gut it will I be giving up hull strenght too.

Does it ever end?
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:53 pm

Depending on the wood some of it is structural. I had the same issues you are having and before I knew it I tore all the rotted wood out. As you stated Does it ever end. Smile

I did sail mine for quite some time with the wood being weak. Unless the conditions are moderate to bad I would say go for it.

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Diggs
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:36 pm

The bulkhead between the salon and v-birth is structural. The settee is also structural.

You can see where there is fiberglass that connects the bulkhead to the forward settee, the forward settee to the keel trunk and the aft settee to the keel trunk. All of this stabilizes the keel trunk and is crucial. The aft settee also is the support for the keel winch and could have pretty bad results if it is rotting.

The last structural piece that I am aware of is under the cockpit. There is a piece of wood in the center of the bilge that supports the cockpit.
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:08 pm

Anyone have a picture of the forward to keel settee area? I don't think mine is braced correctly and I am about to cut a piece to replace the mess I had in there.

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retired1
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:24 pm

The Flush Deck 21 does not have any bulkheads to speak of. They are about the size of a 2x4 glassed to the floor. It is pretty spartan in the cabin area, and soon it will be more so. I hope the pics work this time.



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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:39 am

Anything that is glassed to the keel trunk will stabilize it. If you remove any of that material then you should replace it.
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retired1
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:45 pm

Another issue. I am working on relocating the keel winch. In the photo it was located on the support under the hatch opening. The brown area. I am going to locate it on top of the keel trunk just to the rear of that support, and then enclose it. The cable will then have a straight run from the pulley to the winch.

Next problem. The keel pivot bolt will be replaced. I can turn it but it does have a slight bend in it. Maybe I am missing something here. Why once the keel is up and supported by the cable, and in the case of my design should be somewhat in balance, can a hole be drilled through the trunk and keel and pinned to remove the keel pivot bolt. I don't see that the keel could move at all so replacement should be as simple as pulling the old out and inserting the new. Then remove the pin, and cover the hole in the trunk.
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:14 pm

Hey, I have a CM23. I removed my wench to replace the board/panel that it is mounted to. Mine is also a Fulton 560 so these must be what was installed originally. It has seen finer days and will be replaced. Fulton still sells a winch ment for swing keels, now they are hot dipped galvanized. This will probably be what I use.

Check out fultonperformance.com



Last edited by MesquiteBean CM23 on Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Everett CM32
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Link is broken, least for me.

Here is what I recently installed on our Seacraft: Fulton

Not the same set up as you've got but same principle, lift the keel. I would have preferred the #1500 model but got the #1000 on a trade.

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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:29 pm

Yesir, thats them, (same destination as my failed link) they look like they are good for the purpose. Do you know if these (Fulton) were standard equipment on CMs?

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retired1
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:04 pm

My winch actually is in good shape. I took it apart and cleaned and re oiled it and it seems to work fine. I glassed the board that will hold it today and tomorrow will sand the top of the keel trunk flat to mount the board. Then its glass it all together and make it one.

Then the next task. Change the keel pivot bolt. If you hear a crash coming from the north west of you there in Texas you will know that my attempt failed and the keel hit the driveway.

The continuing saga of the Clippers
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:40 pm

I've got to do all the above to my boat. Right now I've got my keel propped up on 4x4s so I could remove the wench/cable. I plan to re-finish the keel too. It will be challenging to remove.

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Last edited by MesquiteBean CM23 on Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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retired1
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:56 pm

IBean,

Is your keel connection on the end or about 18inches from the end? Mine is the later. I had to lift the boat about 40 inches to get to it, but that is now done. Problem: I think I over did it. I put a shackle in the hole in the keel and then the cable through the shackle on a thimble and then swagged the cable. Problem: Now I think the fix is to long and won't allow the keel to come all the way into the boat. I think I can live with it though. Everything I have read after the fact says just run the cable through the hole in the keel and put a couple of cable clamps on it. I guess thats the way they came from the factory. I guess I will see once I get hte winch re installed.
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:38 pm

Don't know. I haven't taken my keel out yet. Haven't seen where it connects. Seems like I remember seeing another 23 doing the project & it was attached to the end. Don't know for sure.

Wouldn't the cable rub on the keel & frey with direct attachment.?

Not looking forward to keel removal. I have looked for boat jacks on the web. Found a company called scaffoldmart.com with good prices/jacks. I don't have a way to lift the boat onto jacks though. Thought about hiring a big forklift & using straps hooked to a beam overhead. May be too much trouble.

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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:20 pm

Getting mine up in the air wasn't to bad just took some time. Basicly you drop the tongue to the ground then block the stern because it is now quit a waise in the air. Then you raise the tongue and in my case jacked it up a bit that raises the whole boat off the bunks then block the front up. Then roll the trailer forward until the keel comes down. This all need to be done slowly. You have a couple thousand pounds setting on wood blocks. My keel came down far enough to get to the cable. Then when done reverse the process.

You can e-mail me at retired03@cableone.net and I will send you pics of all I have done so far.

Oh if your keel is un attached you may also have to put a small jack under it to hold it off the rubber stopper on the trailer so the trailer will roll easier.
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:33 pm

And here I am after sanding the trunk for relocating the winch. Isn't this fun!!!



Russ
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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:57 pm

Sanding fiberglass is soooo fun!

Your method for raising the boat sounds a lot less expensive than my idea! I will use it instead.

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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:01 pm

I itch just looking at the photo. affraid

I did the same thing till I bought a sander with a vacuum port on it and I got to admit running my shop vac with the hose attached to the sander cuts down on the itch 1000 times making it not so miserable.

Then again there are times you just got to get into the mess and take a cold shower afterwards to cut down on the itching.

Hope its going well itch or no itch. Keep us posted please.

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PostSubject: Re: More winch problems... CM21   Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:24 am

We have a couple of projects that will leave me looking like that. Not looking forward to it....

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